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For several months I have been researching on the net stories about/by former Amish people. I notice some central themes running through almost 99.9% of the stories - experiences of being abused as children, experiences of betrayal trauma, experiences of profound rejection. My understandings of historical trauma transmission through the generations informs me that these experiences are a natural outcome of unresolved intergenerational trauma extending back to the days in Europe when the ana-baptists were first developing into the people now known as Amish, Mennonite and Hutterite.
I encourage those of you who share these experiences to use Google Scholar on your internet and look for articles on "Historical trauma" and "Intergenerational trauma". I believe you may come to understand a more complete picture of the complex story of why abuse happens in Amish and Mennonite homes. There is a profound disconnect between explicit belief systems and inner emotional life as a result of unresolved historical trauma, extending back over 450 years. This needs to be explored, and I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has thoughts about this post. Thank you.
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"Historical trauma" and "Intergenerational trauma" Is this why we have abuse in Amish and Mennonite homes?
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#2
Simon Peter 
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Posted 01 May 2010 - 11:50 PM
Annie Wenger-Nabigon said:
My understandings of historical trauma transmission through the generations informs me that these experiences are a natural outcome of unresolved intergenerational trauma extending back to the days in Europe when the ana-baptists were first developing into the people now known as Amish, Mennonite and Hutterite.
I encourage those of you who share these experiences to use Google Scholar on your internet and look for articles on "Historical trauma" and "Intergenerational trauma". I believe you may come to understand a more complete picture of the complex story of why abuse happens in Amish and Mennonite homes. There is a profound disconnect between explicit belief systems and inner emotional life as a result of unresolved historical trauma, extending back over 450 years. This needs to be explored, and I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has thoughts about this post. Thank you.
I encourage those of you who share these experiences to use Google Scholar on your internet and look for articles on "Historical trauma" and "Intergenerational trauma". I believe you may come to understand a more complete picture of the complex story of why abuse happens in Amish and Mennonite homes. There is a profound disconnect between explicit belief systems and inner emotional life as a result of unresolved historical trauma, extending back over 450 years. This needs to be explored, and I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has thoughts about this post. Thank you.
Welcome to the forum, Annie.
Are you suggesting that emotional patterns and response patterns are developed and handed down to the next generation without ever being properly dealth with?
I find it interesting how some Amish people love to weep (this may sound strange) I think many Amish people enjoy funerals just to witness grieving family members. ... or have a strong desire to listen to sermons that are emotional 'tear jerkers'. This sounds rather wierd... but I think it's true.... is it because of 'weeping forfathers'?
Is this anything in line of what you are referring to?
???
Simon Peter
#3 Guest_DeeY_*
Posted 01 May 2010 - 11:54 PM
Annie Wenger-Nabigon, on 02 May 2010 - 12:41 AM, said:
For several months I have been researching on the net stories about/by former Amish people. I notice some central themes running through almost 99.9% of the stories - experiences of being abused as children, experiences of betrayal trauma, experiences of profound rejection. My understandings of historical trauma transmission through the generations informs me that these experiences are a natural outcome of unresolved intergenerational trauma extending back to the days in Europe when the ana-baptists were first developing into the people now known as Amish, Mennonite and Hutterite.
I encourage those of you who share these experiences to use Google Scholar on your internet and look for articles on "Historical trauma" and "Intergenerational trauma". I believe you may come to understand a more complete picture of the complex story of why abuse happens in Amish and Mennonite homes. There is a profound disconnect between explicit belief systems and inner emotional life as a result of unresolved historical trauma, extending back over 450 years. This needs to be explored, and I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has thoughts about this post. Thank you.
I encourage those of you who share these experiences to use Google Scholar on your internet and look for articles on "Historical trauma" and "Intergenerational trauma". I believe you may come to understand a more complete picture of the complex story of why abuse happens in Amish and Mennonite homes. There is a profound disconnect between explicit belief systems and inner emotional life as a result of unresolved historical trauma, extending back over 450 years. This needs to be explored, and I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has thoughts about this post. Thank you.
Here is a link to the site where this "phenomena" is explained: http://www.historicaltrauma.com/
It is my personal opinion that this is not a useful explanation for why there is so much abuse among the Amish. I have a hard time buying into the notion that an individual can't "help" abusing because his people were traumatized hundreds of years ago. If we follow this kind of thinking to its logical conclusion, then there is an explanation or excuse (especially in America where people groups have mingled for hundreds of years)for EVERY person ever born to have reason for any abusive or antisocial behavior. It doesn't make sense! There are many Amish who never abuse and many other people groups where members never abuse. It's amusing the many ways we search to keep personal responsibility for one's actions to a minimum in our world now.
#4
Henry Byler
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Posted 02 May 2010 - 10:25 AM
I guess I tend to agree with Dee's post. If we follow that line of thinking, drug & alcohol abuse, homosexual behavior and many other fetishes, all could somehow be blamed on something other than my own actions. I will speak for myself here, when I left the Amish, I got into all kinds of things, abuses of alcohol & drugs, just an ungodly lifestyle. At that time I could have been persuaded to do ALMOST anything. Often, I have wondered, why did I get into that kind of lifestyle and I believe the fault is with myself. I followed the wrong people, I was young and looking for excitement, once I started in the drugs, my mind was clouded and it was hard to see things with a proper perspective, the people I talked to were as clouded in their thinking as I was, I could go on & on, but the bottom line, I made poor choices and bad decisions. I could & have at times pointed to my upbringing to have excuses for those years and there is some validity in that. But, when I point at my upbringing, I still have 3 fingers pointing back at myself.
But, I believe the bible would indicate that we, each one of us, individually will answer to God for the choices we make. There will be no pointing to your ancesters, to blame them for what you did in your life.
All that said, I believe profound rejection, being abused as children, etc. does play its role in how we make decisions, in how we relate to people, how vulnerable we are to be FOLLOWERS of people who come into our lives, that may not have the best interests for us. I could go on & on, as I would in the right setting have a lot to say on this, I experienced a lot of these types of things in my life, as an Amish child growing up and then as an adult, acting out.
The answer is, Find Jesus, accept Him as the one to follow.
God Bless!
But, I believe the bible would indicate that we, each one of us, individually will answer to God for the choices we make. There will be no pointing to your ancesters, to blame them for what you did in your life.
All that said, I believe profound rejection, being abused as children, etc. does play its role in how we make decisions, in how we relate to people, how vulnerable we are to be FOLLOWERS of people who come into our lives, that may not have the best interests for us. I could go on & on, as I would in the right setting have a lot to say on this, I experienced a lot of these types of things in my life, as an Amish child growing up and then as an adult, acting out.
The answer is, Find Jesus, accept Him as the one to follow.
God Bless!
#5
Simon Peter
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Posted 02 May 2010 - 05:27 PM
I think I may have mis-interpreted Annie's post and her motives.
If I understand her correctly she is in no way indicating that these people aren't responsible for their actions.... neither was God when He said..... "for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;" God is not telling people that someone else is responsible for what you and I do. And I dont think Annie is either.
Annie, are you still here?? If I understand this correctly we'll be dealing with people that are Christians that need assistance... clinics, wards, institutions, council, because of issues in a persons past that are not properly dealt with.
A mild illustration... the sound of a rooster crowing will have a different effect on Peter than what it does with you and me today. Can you imagine you and I and Peter standing in our yard and a rooster crows and Peter breaks down and weeps. Why?? Something happened in Peters life that left a DEEP impression on him.
The same is with you and me... Oh yeah.. we are Christians.. We love the Lord!! But when something happens that reminds me of an occurance in my past that had a deep 'negative' impact on my life....I will project or interpret differently because of what it did to me.
I believe this is why so many Christians are unable to maintain victory in life... and I have a tendacy to bring out a 'big hammer' and say"you aren't a Christian or you'd live in victory. This is why so many people are seeking council in spiritual warfare...
Maybe we should get our hands out of our pockets, and roll up our sleeves, and see where we may make a difference for our Christian brothers and sisters that are afraid to deal with certain issues because of fear of exposure.
My post may be all wrong in my interpretation of what Annie is saying... Dee is this right or wrong.. you seem to have some insight on what this is all about... I'm here for correction.
Simon Peter
If I understand her correctly she is in no way indicating that these people aren't responsible for their actions.... neither was God when He said..... "for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;" God is not telling people that someone else is responsible for what you and I do. And I dont think Annie is either.
Annie, are you still here?? If I understand this correctly we'll be dealing with people that are Christians that need assistance... clinics, wards, institutions, council, because of issues in a persons past that are not properly dealt with.
A mild illustration... the sound of a rooster crowing will have a different effect on Peter than what it does with you and me today. Can you imagine you and I and Peter standing in our yard and a rooster crows and Peter breaks down and weeps. Why?? Something happened in Peters life that left a DEEP impression on him.
The same is with you and me... Oh yeah.. we are Christians.. We love the Lord!! But when something happens that reminds me of an occurance in my past that had a deep 'negative' impact on my life....I will project or interpret differently because of what it did to me.
I believe this is why so many Christians are unable to maintain victory in life... and I have a tendacy to bring out a 'big hammer' and say"you aren't a Christian or you'd live in victory. This is why so many people are seeking council in spiritual warfare...
Maybe we should get our hands out of our pockets, and roll up our sleeves, and see where we may make a difference for our Christian brothers and sisters that are afraid to deal with certain issues because of fear of exposure.
My post may be all wrong in my interpretation of what Annie is saying... Dee is this right or wrong.. you seem to have some insight on what this is all about... I'm here for correction.
Simon Peter
#6 Guest_DeeY_*
Posted 02 May 2010 - 06:36 PM
Simon Peter, on 02 May 2010 - 06:27 PM, said:
I think I may have mis-interpreted Annie's post and her motives.
If I understand her correctly she is in no way indicating that these people aren't responsible for their actions.... neither was God when He said..... "for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;" God is not telling people that someone else is responsible for what you and I do. And I dont think Annie is either.
Annie, are you still here?? If I understand this correctly we'll be dealing with people that are Christians that need assistance... clinics, wards, institutions, council, because of issues in a persons past that are not properly dealt with.
A mild illustration... the sound of a rooster crowing will have a different effect on Peter than what it does with you and me today. Can you imagine you and I and Peter standing in our yard and a rooster crows and Peter breaks down and weeps. Why?? Something happened in Peters life that left a DEEP impression on him.
The same is with you and me... Oh yeah.. we are Christians.. We love the Lord!! But when something happens that reminds me of an occurance in my past that had a deep 'negative' impact on my life....I will project or interpret differently because of what it did to me.
I believe this is why so many Christians are unable to maintain victory in life... and I have a tendacy to bring out a 'big hammer' and say"you aren't a Christian or you'd live in victory. This is why so many people are seeking council in spiritual warfare...
Maybe we should get our hands out of our pockets, and roll up our sleeves, and see where we may make a difference for our Christian brothers and sisters that are afraid to deal with certain issues because of fear of exposure.
My post may be all wrong in my interpretation of what Annie is saying... Dee is this right or wrong.. you seem to have some insight on what this is all about... I'm here for correction.
Simon Peter
If I understand her correctly she is in no way indicating that these people aren't responsible for their actions.... neither was God when He said..... "for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;" God is not telling people that someone else is responsible for what you and I do. And I dont think Annie is either.
Annie, are you still here?? If I understand this correctly we'll be dealing with people that are Christians that need assistance... clinics, wards, institutions, council, because of issues in a persons past that are not properly dealt with.
A mild illustration... the sound of a rooster crowing will have a different effect on Peter than what it does with you and me today. Can you imagine you and I and Peter standing in our yard and a rooster crows and Peter breaks down and weeps. Why?? Something happened in Peters life that left a DEEP impression on him.
The same is with you and me... Oh yeah.. we are Christians.. We love the Lord!! But when something happens that reminds me of an occurance in my past that had a deep 'negative' impact on my life....I will project or interpret differently because of what it did to me.
I believe this is why so many Christians are unable to maintain victory in life... and I have a tendacy to bring out a 'big hammer' and say"you aren't a Christian or you'd live in victory. This is why so many people are seeking council in spiritual warfare...
Maybe we should get our hands out of our pockets, and roll up our sleeves, and see where we may make a difference for our Christian brothers and sisters that are afraid to deal with certain issues because of fear of exposure.
My post may be all wrong in my interpretation of what Annie is saying... Dee is this right or wrong.. you seem to have some insight on what this is all about... I'm here for correction.
Simon Peter
From what I read, it more about the "generational" traumas that are being repeated in people GROUPS because of PAST historically traceable persecution events of the group as a whole. It was given a name by a Native American doctor who saw problems among the Native American people group (i.e. drinking, drugs, abuse). While I agree that past instances of abuse in an individual Christian's life can and WILL cause pain and will influence their walk with the Lord, I disagree that it is a "group" phenomena that can't be overcome because of some kind of historical traumatic link. Being born into the Jewish people group, for instance, doesn't mean a person will experience more episodes of abuse just because the Jews have historical instances of terrible trauma. I can't swallow that people who are born generations away from a specific traumatic event will still experience effects from that trauma--hundreds of years into the future. I think people are more individualized than that. I think it has to be experienced personally, and not as a "great-great-grandson", so to speak. Some of the groups who are proponents of this idea are also seeking reparations (money) for the ancestors of those who were involved in these traumatic historical events. It has to be an HISTORICAL GROUP trauma, and not personal abusive event to qualify with this name. (Like the Holocaust, African American slavery...any persecuted group of years past.)
#7
Simon Peter
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Posted 03 May 2010 - 05:57 PM
Annie,
I read and re-read your initial post and I find it interesting... because... I think you may be getting onto something that we need to know and deal with properly or it is handed down to the next generation.(The next generation picks it up) I see this exact thing going on in our community.
I'd like to hear more on here... but if Dee's insight is 100% correct on where this is going... that we as the next generation are victims... yes I agree with Dee- we are free moral agents with many options.
However, this thought keeps coming back about how the response to pain, rejection, sexual abuse, unforgiveness, etc, etc have an effect on following generations IF not dealt with properly.
I'd like Annie to share some more before we discard her studies..
My guess is all ex-Amish know where I'm coming from.
Simon Peter
I read and re-read your initial post and I find it interesting... because... I think you may be getting onto something that we need to know and deal with properly or it is handed down to the next generation.(The next generation picks it up) I see this exact thing going on in our community.
I'd like to hear more on here... but if Dee's insight is 100% correct on where this is going... that we as the next generation are victims... yes I agree with Dee- we are free moral agents with many options.
However, this thought keeps coming back about how the response to pain, rejection, sexual abuse, unforgiveness, etc, etc have an effect on following generations IF not dealt with properly.
I'd like Annie to share some more before we discard her studies..
My guess is all ex-Amish know where I'm coming from.
Simon Peter
#8 Guest_Annie Wenger-Nabigon_*
Posted 03 May 2010 - 09:26 PM
Very interesting observation....yes, this is an example of what I am referring to. There is some evidence of "blood memory", although it is a scientifically contested concept, which would explain the identification with experiences that emerge from transmission of intergenerational trauma. Research on Jewish survivors of the European holocaust and their family members shows that in the generations following the that experience the descendants of survivors and victims show a variety of symptoms that can be attributed to unresolved trauma that could only have been transmitted cross-generationally. Cynthia Wesley-Exquimaux, a Canadian First Nation author, professor and activist, has done a lot of work on the impact of historical trauma on Native peoples. Robert Jay Lifton has written about Japanese survivors of Hiroshima and Viet Nam War vets, and many scholars and therapists have written extensively on child and adult survivors of various abuse and assault and victims of other trauma, such as war.
There is a lot of information world-wide on this topic, and I believe that it can also be applied to Amish and Mennonite people. Weeping copiously and out of context of personal experience evidences identification with the victim. The individuals weeping in that manner are finding a culturally acceptable way of expressing grief that arises from deep inner pain that is not identified otherwise but is requires release if the individual is to be able to function in psychologically manageable ways. The emotional abreation (venting;expressing in release) of this kind of weeping can be very beneficial to increasing group cohesion.
There is a commonality of experience without needing to specifically name the grief (which could be threatening to the group identification), and it is in a setting where it can be validated and supported, whereas speaking about a more specific and personal grief may bring one closer to the true inner nature of the source of the grief. But in the case of ana-baptists, this has become transmitted through the generations, primarily through various forms of abuse and control (which is an acting out of the identification with the perpetrator - the original abusers and torturers in the 16th and 17th centuries which then becomes passed on through social modeling and parenting styles) Thus, people are seeking an acceptable way to release the emotional distress in a socially acceptable manner.
To identify the real source of the pain would require a deeper, or higher, level of consciousness, and a critical analysis of context and experience, which would be threatening to a complexly evolved form of social structure. Things would start to come apart to large extents if ana-baptists were to do such an anylsis of their cultural and religious practices....change would have to happen - if the story of who we are, and why, changes, WE change. It is an incredibly difficult thing to contemplate. I'm very interested in hearing more thoughts about this.
There is a lot of information world-wide on this topic, and I believe that it can also be applied to Amish and Mennonite people. Weeping copiously and out of context of personal experience evidences identification with the victim. The individuals weeping in that manner are finding a culturally acceptable way of expressing grief that arises from deep inner pain that is not identified otherwise but is requires release if the individual is to be able to function in psychologically manageable ways. The emotional abreation (venting;expressing in release) of this kind of weeping can be very beneficial to increasing group cohesion.
There is a commonality of experience without needing to specifically name the grief (which could be threatening to the group identification), and it is in a setting where it can be validated and supported, whereas speaking about a more specific and personal grief may bring one closer to the true inner nature of the source of the grief. But in the case of ana-baptists, this has become transmitted through the generations, primarily through various forms of abuse and control (which is an acting out of the identification with the perpetrator - the original abusers and torturers in the 16th and 17th centuries which then becomes passed on through social modeling and parenting styles) Thus, people are seeking an acceptable way to release the emotional distress in a socially acceptable manner.
To identify the real source of the pain would require a deeper, or higher, level of consciousness, and a critical analysis of context and experience, which would be threatening to a complexly evolved form of social structure. Things would start to come apart to large extents if ana-baptists were to do such an anylsis of their cultural and religious practices....change would have to happen - if the story of who we are, and why, changes, WE change. It is an incredibly difficult thing to contemplate. I'm very interested in hearing more thoughts about this.
#9 Guest_Annie Wenger-Nabigon_*
Posted 03 May 2010 - 10:12 PM
I've been looking at some of the response, and appreciate all that has been said. Thoughtful input.
There are several things I want to clarify:
FIRST - an EXPLANATION of a phenomena is not an EXCUSE - unless it is used to abdicate personal and collective responsibility.
SECOND - there are other manifestations of historical trauma than intergenrational transmission of forms of abuse(one example); these can be things such as depression, anxiety, inability to emotionally regulate, emotional numbing, psychological disorders of other sorts, inability to trust, etc.
THIRD - I am advocating that serious consideration be given to the need to heal from the wounds of the past in order to live fully and wholly as the Creator intended for us to live - in peace, love, forgiveness, humility, with courage, compasison, honesty and truthfulness. Jesus said that He came to bring LIFE, and LIFE MORE ABUNDANTLY (which did not mean financially but spiritually, I believe).
Ultimately, what we are talking about is a soul wound. If I have a wound I am responsible to do what is required to heal it. For example, I was once burned badly on my leg. It was improtant to know HOW the burn happened in order to care for it properly. I was the ONLY person who could heal me - medical care could give me medication and pharmaceutical companies could sell me bandages, but I was the one who had to keep the burn clean, bandaged, debrieded, protected - it took a long time to heal. I also prayed about the burn, carefully attended to it and watched for things that might go wrong, like infection, and several times a day applied an oil with healing herbs on the healing burn area. The burn had to heal from the inside out - from the 3rd layer to the 2nd layer to the 1st layer of skin. If it had simply scabbed over,(covered up) the wound would have festered and not healed. A large scar would be there when it eventually healed after strong antibiotic. In my case, I did not use antibiotics, nor do I have any evidence of the burn - not even discolored skin. That is proof of God's healing at work.
The focus is on the work of healing, the careful attendance to what is required for healing, and the commitment and dedication to healing. The focus was not on HOW the burn happened but on what was necessary for healing, yet it was necessary to KNOW how the burn happened so that I could do the correct work in care of the burn.
My writing about this topic is not to encourage irresponsiblity, or excuses for bad behavior, or to encourage victimhood. I do not coose to become a victim - no one does. But if I keep re-victimizing myself by feeling that it is my fault that I was victimized, then I am choosing to be a victim. If people want to take that road they will find that they are on a cycle that is typical for those who struggle with the abuse cycle: perpetrator-victim-rescuer. These three positions are interchangeable. Often the victimizer is someone who may not have been physically abused but is acting out controlling impulses and misuse of power. They then feel guilt and remorse and either try to excuse themselves and/or try to make-up to their victim in some way. But soon the tension builds up again from their inner distress and they strike out again. I have worked as a therapist with traumatized people for over 30 years. Over and over again I have seen the patterns acted out. I do believe that there are many ways for people to express unhealthy ways of relating to people, and blaming the victim is one of the results that commonly occurs when people try to avoid looking at their own issues of control. They are trying to fix something (a positive motive) but doing so in a way that perpetuates a pattern of behavior that does not promote healthy growth and relationships. Abdicating responsibility, and encouraging or protecting or excusing others who also abdicate personal responsibility only allows the unhealthy patterns to occur.
This discussion needs to continue....it is important to listen to each other and not make assumptions about what one is saying, but to try to understand the deeper picture. In no way am I saying that the concept of intergenerational transmission of historical trauma excuses abuse in Amish or Mennonite families and communities. I AM saying that it is a concept that I believe helps EXPLAIN the phenomena. Also, the presence of negative results (abuse, drug and alcohol use, irresponsible behavior, etc) of historical trauma do not erase the many wonderful and positive aspects of Amish and Mennonite communities, whose core values have been preserved at great cost and suffering. I am grateful for my ana-baptist ancestors and thank God for who I am. But I also recognize that my own "healing from the inside" came to fullness when I finally understood that all of what I suffered, and my family as well, was not my "fault" but was understandable, explainable, through an understanding of the true nature of the circumstances. When I understood historical trauma, the story of my family finally made sense and my compassion and forgiveness became stronger. My ability to set boundaries appropriately improved, and I stopped trying to "fix" people, and did better at loving them. Some people I needed to set boundaries with and not speak with any longer, or minimize my contact, but I no longer feel emotionally distressed about that.
I hope that our discussion here on this topic can be focused on healing, and on being supportive of other's healing journeys.
Let's keep talking.
Thanks.
There are several things I want to clarify:
FIRST - an EXPLANATION of a phenomena is not an EXCUSE - unless it is used to abdicate personal and collective responsibility.
SECOND - there are other manifestations of historical trauma than intergenrational transmission of forms of abuse(one example); these can be things such as depression, anxiety, inability to emotionally regulate, emotional numbing, psychological disorders of other sorts, inability to trust, etc.
THIRD - I am advocating that serious consideration be given to the need to heal from the wounds of the past in order to live fully and wholly as the Creator intended for us to live - in peace, love, forgiveness, humility, with courage, compasison, honesty and truthfulness. Jesus said that He came to bring LIFE, and LIFE MORE ABUNDANTLY (which did not mean financially but spiritually, I believe).
Ultimately, what we are talking about is a soul wound. If I have a wound I am responsible to do what is required to heal it. For example, I was once burned badly on my leg. It was improtant to know HOW the burn happened in order to care for it properly. I was the ONLY person who could heal me - medical care could give me medication and pharmaceutical companies could sell me bandages, but I was the one who had to keep the burn clean, bandaged, debrieded, protected - it took a long time to heal. I also prayed about the burn, carefully attended to it and watched for things that might go wrong, like infection, and several times a day applied an oil with healing herbs on the healing burn area. The burn had to heal from the inside out - from the 3rd layer to the 2nd layer to the 1st layer of skin. If it had simply scabbed over,(covered up) the wound would have festered and not healed. A large scar would be there when it eventually healed after strong antibiotic. In my case, I did not use antibiotics, nor do I have any evidence of the burn - not even discolored skin. That is proof of God's healing at work.
The focus is on the work of healing, the careful attendance to what is required for healing, and the commitment and dedication to healing. The focus was not on HOW the burn happened but on what was necessary for healing, yet it was necessary to KNOW how the burn happened so that I could do the correct work in care of the burn.
My writing about this topic is not to encourage irresponsiblity, or excuses for bad behavior, or to encourage victimhood. I do not coose to become a victim - no one does. But if I keep re-victimizing myself by feeling that it is my fault that I was victimized, then I am choosing to be a victim. If people want to take that road they will find that they are on a cycle that is typical for those who struggle with the abuse cycle: perpetrator-victim-rescuer. These three positions are interchangeable. Often the victimizer is someone who may not have been physically abused but is acting out controlling impulses and misuse of power. They then feel guilt and remorse and either try to excuse themselves and/or try to make-up to their victim in some way. But soon the tension builds up again from their inner distress and they strike out again. I have worked as a therapist with traumatized people for over 30 years. Over and over again I have seen the patterns acted out. I do believe that there are many ways for people to express unhealthy ways of relating to people, and blaming the victim is one of the results that commonly occurs when people try to avoid looking at their own issues of control. They are trying to fix something (a positive motive) but doing so in a way that perpetuates a pattern of behavior that does not promote healthy growth and relationships. Abdicating responsibility, and encouraging or protecting or excusing others who also abdicate personal responsibility only allows the unhealthy patterns to occur.
This discussion needs to continue....it is important to listen to each other and not make assumptions about what one is saying, but to try to understand the deeper picture. In no way am I saying that the concept of intergenerational transmission of historical trauma excuses abuse in Amish or Mennonite families and communities. I AM saying that it is a concept that I believe helps EXPLAIN the phenomena. Also, the presence of negative results (abuse, drug and alcohol use, irresponsible behavior, etc) of historical trauma do not erase the many wonderful and positive aspects of Amish and Mennonite communities, whose core values have been preserved at great cost and suffering. I am grateful for my ana-baptist ancestors and thank God for who I am. But I also recognize that my own "healing from the inside" came to fullness when I finally understood that all of what I suffered, and my family as well, was not my "fault" but was understandable, explainable, through an understanding of the true nature of the circumstances. When I understood historical trauma, the story of my family finally made sense and my compassion and forgiveness became stronger. My ability to set boundaries appropriately improved, and I stopped trying to "fix" people, and did better at loving them. Some people I needed to set boundaries with and not speak with any longer, or minimize my contact, but I no longer feel emotionally distressed about that.
I hope that our discussion here on this topic can be focused on healing, and on being supportive of other's healing journeys.
Let's keep talking.
Thanks.
#10
Simon Peter
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Posted 03 May 2010 - 11:10 PM
A literal example of how your heart will hide trauma;
Let's say I accidently smash my finger because of a careless swing of a hammer. OUCH!! I put my hand under my arm and squeeze mt arm down to control, hide, quench, diminish, ease the pain.
Now, you walk up to me and ask to see my hand... "No way!! It hurts too much... I have to keep it under my arm...." I walk around in a circle.
Now you say, "Come on, I do need to see it... you may need stitches."
"Oh, no!!" and I squeeze my arm down tighter.
(my heart will say the same thing with any type of emotional pain.) It doesn't want to be exposed because it will re-live the pain( at least to some degree)
I walk around with my left hand squeezed under my right arm for a long time. After a long time... the pain is gone completely... but I want to continue walking around with my left hand under my right arm and my left hand stays immobile. Unless I expose my left hand and 'take a look' at the trauma, I am doing myself a dis-service by keeping my hand hidden.
Things like this... hidden in my heart become influential (often reversed) into character.
You may hear a young man say... I will never do like my Dad did.... and within a certain time ... he did the exact thing he said he'd never do. This shows me that this is much stronger than a personal act of the will.... I am a person with a strong will... but I discovered I needed something much stronger to overcome the "thing" my father did... and I had said I'd NEVER do that.
Breaking this cycle is not a small task... the easiest thing to do is hide it.. for a season at least.( This causes improper healing.)
Simon Peter
Let's say I accidently smash my finger because of a careless swing of a hammer. OUCH!! I put my hand under my arm and squeeze mt arm down to control, hide, quench, diminish, ease the pain.
Now, you walk up to me and ask to see my hand... "No way!! It hurts too much... I have to keep it under my arm...." I walk around in a circle.
Now you say, "Come on, I do need to see it... you may need stitches."
"Oh, no!!" and I squeeze my arm down tighter.
(my heart will say the same thing with any type of emotional pain.) It doesn't want to be exposed because it will re-live the pain( at least to some degree)
I walk around with my left hand squeezed under my right arm for a long time. After a long time... the pain is gone completely... but I want to continue walking around with my left hand under my right arm and my left hand stays immobile. Unless I expose my left hand and 'take a look' at the trauma, I am doing myself a dis-service by keeping my hand hidden.
Things like this... hidden in my heart become influential (often reversed) into character.
You may hear a young man say... I will never do like my Dad did.... and within a certain time ... he did the exact thing he said he'd never do. This shows me that this is much stronger than a personal act of the will.... I am a person with a strong will... but I discovered I needed something much stronger to overcome the "thing" my father did... and I had said I'd NEVER do that.
Breaking this cycle is not a small task... the easiest thing to do is hide it.. for a season at least.( This causes improper healing.)
Simon Peter
#11
Henry Byler
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Posted 03 May 2010 - 11:35 PM
I also misunderstood Annie's first post. After reading the posts following, I understand a little m better what Annie is trying to say. As Simon said above, most of the former Amish can relate to a lot of these issues. Especially the proper healing part. It seemed to me that we would cover it up first and if that didn't work, try to laugh it off, maybe even make fun of a person who had issues they were struggling with. But, proper healing of a wounded spirit was definitely not practised in the Amish circles. It is an interesting thing to think about, but hard tofathom that some of the issues would filter down though hundreds of years. I learned to not say impossible to many things though.
#12 Guest_DeeY_*
Posted 04 May 2010 - 02:44 AM
I think I DO understand your post, Annie. But my disagreement comes in this notion that a generation ago, trauma acted on an entire people group has caused anguish and pain through subsequent generations--simply because a person was born into that group. Even as an explanation it makes no sense to me simply because we're talking about an ENTIRE group of people. Scientifically, I would have to conclude that either all people in the group or the majority would show signs of trauma for generation after generation...and it would ONLY be that trauma that caused this. How could that ever be proven? It seems there would be too many other factors that couldn't be eliminated to conclude this! There could be many influences that could cause troubles from one generation to the next. And besides, how do we then explain people who have no identifiable people group that had an historical trauma they can be associated with who also experience abuse? It seems to me it has more to do with each family unit and what is learned or TAUGHT within those units. Maybe the Amish as a whole have perpetuated their abuse by simply not having abusers be held accountable and then the children are also passing on what they were taught. We know that abuse that is passed from father to child can cause the child (through boundary abuse) to also abuse. But I see that in families who have NO historically tortured people group to identify with.
The idea that blood can transmit this type of trauma is hard for a biology person like me to accept, too. How could something like that be proven either? There would have to be some kind of physical marker in a person's blood to show that. I can see why that idea is not as readily accepted in scientific communities.
I don't deny that groups of people can pass on their abusive learned behaviors, but not that it is something physically "inherited" through ancestors. I guess that is where I really get antsy about this idea. My husband works in social work--I'll have to ask him if his agency has talked about this theory at all.
Simon, I know plenty of people who are not ex-Amish who can fully understand the idea of abuse that is passed from parent to child and the child then to their own children. While I appreciate that this board focuses on the Amish, sin of this type is prevalent everywhere. You don't have to be Amish or ex-Amish to have this kind of thing happen in your family or to understand what it can do to destroy the soul.
The idea that blood can transmit this type of trauma is hard for a biology person like me to accept, too. How could something like that be proven either? There would have to be some kind of physical marker in a person's blood to show that. I can see why that idea is not as readily accepted in scientific communities.
I don't deny that groups of people can pass on their abusive learned behaviors, but not that it is something physically "inherited" through ancestors. I guess that is where I really get antsy about this idea. My husband works in social work--I'll have to ask him if his agency has talked about this theory at all.
Simon, I know plenty of people who are not ex-Amish who can fully understand the idea of abuse that is passed from parent to child and the child then to their own children. While I appreciate that this board focuses on the Amish, sin of this type is prevalent everywhere. You don't have to be Amish or ex-Amish to have this kind of thing happen in your family or to understand what it can do to destroy the soul.
#13
Simon Peter
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Posted 04 May 2010 - 04:56 AM
DeeY said:
It seems to me it has more to do with each family unit and what is learned or TAUGHT within those units. Maybe the Amish as a whole have perpetuated their abuse by simply not having abusers be held accountable and then the children are also passing on what they were taught. We know that abuse that is passed from father to child can cause the child (through boundary abuse) to also abuse. But I see that in families who have NO historically tortured people group to identify with.
This is what I was referring to. I agree with you, Dee.
DeeY said:
The idea that blood can transmit this type of trauma is hard for a biology person like me to accept, too.I don't deny that groups of people can pass on their abusive learned behaviors, but not that it is something physically "inherited" through ancestors. I guess that is where I really get antsy about this idea.
Again I agree with you, Dee. I don't see into that either ... nor want to get started.
DeeY said:
Simon, I know plenty of people who are not ex-Amish who can fully understand the idea of abuse that is passed from parent to child and the child then to their own children. While I appreciate that this board focuses on the Amish, sin of this type is prevalent everywhere. You don't have to be Amish or ex-Amish to have this kind of thing happen in your family or to understand what it can do to destroy the soul.
I'm sure you're right Dee. It's not only Amish and/or ExAmish that have to deal with abuse..... but the thing that 'gets' me is how this abuse is seemingly overlooked and the people can be called "God's people" and look so humble, meek and loving.
Here again we can't class all Amish this way... we'd run into big trouble... I don't know , maybe I'm going in circles here, Dee. You seem to understand what Annie is saying. There is obviously much more in the foundation that what I see.
Thanks everyone. Have an awesome day!!
Simon Peter
#14 Guest_Annie Wenger-Nabigon_*
Posted 04 May 2010 - 09:25 PM
Thanks everyone for this useful exchange. I am going to bow out at this point. I do follow these blogs from time to time, and will check in again down the road. I also am continuing to investigate the issue of historical trauma as it applies to Mennonite and Amish people, and will post an update in the future as I learn more. My best wishes to everyone!
Annie
Annie
#15 Guest_bblack4jc_*
Posted 16 July 2010 - 12:26 PM
I've read some of the blogs on here. I believe that the sexual and physical abuse is passed on from generation to generation because we do not deal with the sin. As an ex-Mennonite with Amish history, I have seen that in my family these issues and people's sins are not dealt with. When an abuser is found out, they just sweep it under the rug and don't talk about it. Rarely is the abuser held accountable except to simply repent of their sin. Because of the secrecy and lack of accountability, the breeding ground is set for the abuse to continue generation after generation. It is not a generational curse, but generational sin. Yes, one who is abused may have an inclination toward abusing another, but they always have the ability to choose-to choose what is right and to choose to get help.
The false beliefs of my Mennonite/Amish family is that you "forgive and forget," and don't bring it up again. Just put it behind you. There are so many falsehoods about that. First, God did not create us to forget. I tried that! I didn't have any memories of the abuse until I was 40 years old. Then, all of a sudden the repressed memories began to surface. Second, there is the "forgive" part. I find that the belief is to just say, "I forgive my Dad for abusing me." Done. Period. End of the issue. To that I ask, "what exactly did you forgive Dad for?" If you put a blanket statement on it without being specific, and if you don't deal with all of the ramifications of that abuse; it is paramount to putting a tiny band-aid on a huge gaping life-threatening wound! Telling any sexually abused person to "forgive and forget" is like abusing them all over again! It's horrific! Believe me, I know.
The false beliefs of my Mennonite/Amish family is that you "forgive and forget," and don't bring it up again. Just put it behind you. There are so many falsehoods about that. First, God did not create us to forget. I tried that! I didn't have any memories of the abuse until I was 40 years old. Then, all of a sudden the repressed memories began to surface. Second, there is the "forgive" part. I find that the belief is to just say, "I forgive my Dad for abusing me." Done. Period. End of the issue. To that I ask, "what exactly did you forgive Dad for?" If you put a blanket statement on it without being specific, and if you don't deal with all of the ramifications of that abuse; it is paramount to putting a tiny band-aid on a huge gaping life-threatening wound! Telling any sexually abused person to "forgive and forget" is like abusing them all over again! It's horrific! Believe me, I know.
#16
Valerie
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Posted 16 July 2010 - 08:45 PM
Thank you for sharing, your pain is so real in your post. No one should make light of it, and am assuming many would come onto a discussion board like this that could relate to what you have been through. Have you found help in the way of Christian counseling or therapy, or where have you turned?
It does happen both sides of the fence, in the English world it can be very similar (denial/covering up), hear of it all the time, although improving on exposing, arresting, thereapy, etc. My mother went thru similar, not with Dad but uncles-and her mother didn't deal with it, knowing it as well. Counseling helped her a great deal. The forgiveness, is more important for your own emotional health, and freedom, yet it is a work of the Lord to make it real in your heart. You're right, just saying it doesn't make it real.May the Lord truly, heal your pain and use it to help others. I appreciate you clarifying, this behavior is sin,-and a choice to repent of it and seek the Lords deliverance once and for all.
It does happen both sides of the fence, in the English world it can be very similar (denial/covering up), hear of it all the time, although improving on exposing, arresting, thereapy, etc. My mother went thru similar, not with Dad but uncles-and her mother didn't deal with it, knowing it as well. Counseling helped her a great deal. The forgiveness, is more important for your own emotional health, and freedom, yet it is a work of the Lord to make it real in your heart. You're right, just saying it doesn't make it real.May the Lord truly, heal your pain and use it to help others. I appreciate you clarifying, this behavior is sin,-and a choice to repent of it and seek the Lords deliverance once and for all.
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